No we won't. no one ever had a bunch of mini Hw's ever in SL history. If i didn't think this was going to get worse I wouldn't be up on my soapbox. But I know people who are burning their Hw's up training and are not planning on replacing them for the little bit that Having a Hw will bring. The market is being fixed and that will help some but not all. The prob is that New hw's are not being made. Training has been accellerated and bigger and bigger Hw's are falling and not being replaced. More and more player are playing without a HW. You can follow it from there. And then again there is always the question.

How do you gain points from someone with no Hw?

__________________________
Was Skylords Main banker
Ex-Doggpound Member
Ex-Redrum Member
Ex-EidG member / banker
Ex-CidG / IDG Elite Force member
Ex-AidG Leader / Banker
Ex-Shikshiena Progress Clan
Ex-Shikshiena Jrs Clan Leader

My Brain is hung like a horse :P
14th Sep

if you make defense buildings cheap(at least i will) build them all in my production planets, so more 25 mini-hws . You got a point when you say its hard to gain points from someone with no hw, but that what this post is all about, making peple building hws. i think the market fixes would help alot and i like some of the otehrs players ideias so there is no need to change any formula or the gameplay, just wait until all changes are made.

Agree with Arcanix. Market change will make a great effect. Points for resources will make a great effect. Buildings will make a great effect. So leaves only keeping resources in ships, (my fourth point was made in the other topic about this).

No formula change is needed. It's good now. 7 middle-low Hw's in this round is not a disaster, you can convert this number into full deffense Hw's. That's not many. There are always oppurtinities to defend your Hw's, clear nierbies, move them from time to time, make deffence high, that the choice of attackers wouldn't be you. Also this round is special, the comparison with previuos one is obviuosly saying that.

The problem is with building Hw's, not their safety in my opinion.

__________________________
I will defeat you. When you grow up, if you still feel raw about it, i'll be waiting.

This is why I hate having two topic on the same thing. Defensive building are in the work but are no where near ready for any kind of implimentation. Maybe in feb or march. Even then we're not sure what they will look like. This is one of the reasons I'm against raising the def formula for the assaults. Because with all thats comming attacking will get harder and I think its premature monkey with that.

Rukna, still disagree, still for the same reasons and no one ever can tell me how to gain points from some who doesn't have a HW.

I for one love stragedy, but there need to be fairness. THIS IS NOT FAIR. It is game altering and destructive for the long term viability of the game. Read other support forum topic.

All of your changes will amount to is this.

Less on the markest and more resources will be used. People without Hw will still have a gain of resources for having a 9x production planet. most buildings will give is 1 6x production of a resource and it will cost a lot to even get it. So far only iron is going to be produced. so having a hw give you 3 production points less than a 9x planet. Points are a joke. No one will have anything but defensive resources on their HW in large ammounts so points will be negliable. You'll never win using that. And your still a target so no matter what you do your still a target for someone with out a HW. The worst thing is that the only targets you have are other suckers like yourselves. So you have to attack other Hws for points if you want to win. Hw's will fall and not be replaced. If you follow this out SL will wind down into production battle fights adn probably a reset. Which no one wants.

Any way we need to work on ONE topic at a time since they are the same.

__________________________
Was Skylords Main banker
Ex-Doggpound Member
Ex-Redrum Member
Ex-EidG member / banker
Ex-CidG / IDG Elite Force member
Ex-AidG Leader / Banker
Ex-Shikshiena Progress Clan
Ex-Shikshiena Jrs Clan Leader

My Brain is hung like a horse :P
14th Sep

I can answer to your bored question: NOHOW
Otherwise we wouldn't make these suggestions to encourage Hw building.

"so having a hw give you 3 production points less than a 9x planet. Points are a joke. No one will have anything but defensive resources on their HW in large ammounts"

I disagree about those production points. You counted only if one building is made.

The market change would of course decrease the amounts there, but only if there will still be benefit in keeping them on ships. The amounts are obviuosly too big there, and the prices of majority of them as well.

"more resources will be used" - it is rather theoretical, try to use all your silicon, uranium or hydro let's say. If it is played according to the model i wrote, so that is not an effective playing. You will always gain additional resources from capturing Hw's, spc, pirating, you have to own resources for trades, to gain benefit from changing market prices.

All players have and will have resources. The question is how to make to keep them on planets. My 4th point eliminates the benefit of keeping resources in ships (although not forbid) and make it harmful, so after market change i can't imagine any other place to keep them.

__________________________
I will defeat you. When you grow up, if you still feel raw about it, i'll be waiting.

Look I live on the support forum I know almsot all of the angles because I've brought most of them up or worked on them. So....

Yes the other two building do not add much towards def. one burns Hydro into energy. You can't have it on a planet with more than 1 mln E rather limiting its effect. And the other is a shield the burns E to increase shield stregnth. So production available product is still only going to be in iron.

And with all that you keep harking nothing you have proposed makes a HW necessary. It makes them nicer but not necessary. The next shift in play will be to either trade off or sell for credit the extra resources. Then not produce as many non immediately usable resources. As long as anything can be stored on ship they will be. no matter the limit unless it is in the 100's Quite frankly I don't care as much about the resources on ships as long as they are in game play. I just want Balance. You need to be able to go after someone who attacks you. If I can't find them that one thing but if they can not be scored upon then that needs to be fixed or let play out. The game is not balanced if one player can effect the other without any form of retribution. We either need a reason where HW's are a MUST HAVE for all attackers or face the facts that all Hws will disappear.

__________________________
Was Skylords Main banker
Ex-Doggpound Member
Ex-Redrum Member
Ex-EidG member / banker
Ex-CidG / IDG Elite Force member
Ex-AidG Leader / Banker
Ex-Shikshiena Progress Clan
Ex-Shikshiena Jrs Clan Leader

My Brain is hung like a horse :P
14th Sep

I support the ideas of this...however they're not neccessarily a problem, Vietnam wasn't fair, but that didn't stop the Viet Cong using Geurilla warfare against the Americans, I suddenly don't see the problem in making yourself as small a target as possible...

I would like to see HWs back again, I just don't condemn the current strategies.

__________________________
Make your move, reindeer games.

I don't care one way or the other either. Vietnam wasn't fair thats real life. But the this is a game it is supposed to be fair or else why are we playing. And if we were doing the Vietnam as an online game with only two players US vs VC I'd have nuked the north to glass, poison gassed all other territories that I didn't control then institute a harsh rule and marshall law until the VC were all dead. Then the vc wouldnt be a threat. This is not possible in RL but a game should be balanced. If its not fair to all then we have a problem. If we decide to let peolple attack HW for big points and not be able to be attacked back then we have an unbalanced game. If everyone gets rid of their HW's then this isn't a problem any more as it is Gorilla vs Gorilla but the game will be alot different than what we play now. All I want to know is what does everyone want to do. We really need a poll. If we want to save Hw's and that style of play we need to balance it. If not then we let the slow progression of play continue for a year or so then figure out what to do when there are no more hw's to attack. But if we do and everyone b!tches about it later then no one who plays that style should get a say so as to how to fix it. Oh and I get an unlimited I told you so.

Maybe I should be a special case and hold no planets but just gain points for posting ideas on the Support forum. Hmmm, 10k per post should be right. this way I can win the round and no one can attack me either....... If we are going for unbalanced I think that this isn't too over the top. Well maybe I'm being greedy. I'll settle for 5k.

__________________________
Was Skylords Main banker
Ex-Doggpound Member
Ex-Redrum Member
Ex-EidG member / banker
Ex-CidG / IDG Elite Force member
Ex-AidG Leader / Banker
Ex-Shikshiena Progress Clan
Ex-Shikshiena Jrs Clan Leader

My Brain is hung like a horse :P
14th Sep

I obviously would like to see HWs more valuable, but I do not want to take actions which will:

1. Be too dramatic too fast - balance means care must be given not to do too much too fast, and
2. Force players to have a HW even though they would prefer not to have one (e.g., ships assigned to planets).

I do think that the market is too convenient now as a storage depot for resources. That is a short term problem which will be fixed (during November, I hope) and the market will be changed to force resources to be held on planets when sold and unable to be moved from location of sale until taken off market or sold.

At the same time, I do not feel that playing without a HW is necessarily bad, and I would condemn no player who chooses this route. I would not want to say that a player like Hope who consistently used up most of his resources in attacking for a long time, should be penalized or prevented from attacking.

I want to have HWs be modestly safer in one way or another. Stronger defense formula, or some defensive building, or some space based defense (fighter control ship). Some such changes will take longer to implement than others, so we also need to have some reality checks on what is possible to do before moving too fast to think of new options. Space based defense is the hardest to do fast and well. Planet based buildings would be easy to do. Attack restrictions based on HW, as Bert has suggested, would be moderately hard to do, but could be done, although I am not especially fond of this solution personally.

__________________________
"Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most."

Bert, I think you're missing the point... Also, I am strongly opposed to forcing anybody to do anything, though I don't mind making something (such as homeworlds) a strategic imperative. Back when, players also did not have to have a homeworld... Most did because there were good reasons to. I would rather ensure that there are good reasons to keep a homeworld, than to arbitrarily force players to keep one. The goal is balance, not imbalance. (Also, to see what a mess giving points for posting makes, check out Gaia).

__________________________
SkyLords Head Programmer

Spelled: I I R I (not irii, irri, or iri).

Force of nature.